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u/Unitentional-Pathos Sep 25 '22
Lib take. I need those guns to protect my family from nazis
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u/inheresytruth Sep 24 '22
I get the sentiment, but this is a vote loser, at a time when we can't spare a single vote and democracy is at stake. The last ban caused the loss of both chambers.
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u/gooch87 Sep 25 '22
Whats funny to me is that this 'assault weapons ban' that passed in the house allows someone to have a classic wood grained version of a Ruger mini-14 but bans the 'tactical' version that has a pistol grip and picatinny rail on the bottom of the gun. These things are for a comfort they dont change the function of the gun at all. They literally just want to ban the appearance of the gun
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u/amberoze Sep 25 '22
This is my take as well. Every time I hear "assault weapon ban", I ask the person to define the term "assault weapon"...99% of the time, they give some vague description like you've stated, with pistol grip and picatinny rails. There is really only one real difference, and it's a select fire safety switch. "Safe", "Semi", and either "Burst" or "Auto".
military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and that has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire.
-Encyclopedia Britannica.
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u/JohnMcCainsArms Sep 25 '22
well that’s the thing, they don’t actually want to win… so they pull out shit like this to ensure they won’t get the votes. but they’ll continue to act all high and mighty pretending they’re doing everything they can to win control of congress.
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u/JeffHall28 Sep 24 '22
I see the Dems have come up with a fresh strategy for tanking the midterms. Such a great message for the candidates running in tight races in purple states! Always good to see fresh partisan fodder that they can get beat up with.
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u/YoStephen Sep 24 '22
Seriously. Even is fucking chicago they dems know that their normal song and dance of 2A isnt gonna fly with racialized minorities and many queer folx
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u/magnoliasmanor Sep 25 '22
If they seriously push this for the next few months I'll start thinking it's an inside job and the Dems and nuking themselves on purpose.
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u/JohnMcCainsArms Sep 25 '22
they do it on purpose to ensure republicans stay in control. it’s easier to bitch about shit than it is to make actual change, they’re all old as fuck and give no shits about regular people.
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u/BoukuNola Sep 24 '22
Turning in your guns when you know the fascists that fantasize about killing you wont be turning in theirs.
I’ll go ahead and file this under “dumb neoliberal ideas that are gonna get us all fucking killed”.
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u/Almostsuicide1234 Sep 24 '22
Thank you for having the stones to say this.
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u/BoukuNola Sep 24 '22
Expected to get downvoted to hell, but since the ball is already rolling…
1) Every person that has ever bitched about banning guns (not sensible gun control, which I support) is always some washed up white liberal that lives in a safe, gated community. Never had to give a second thought about hopping out of bed at 3 am to defend themselves. Really wish they’d climb down from their ivory towers, because they sound fucking ridiculous.
2) Gun bans will almost certainly be used to disproportionately target/jail minorities.
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u/Almostsuicide1234 Sep 24 '22
Spot fucking on. Being both an uncompromising supporter of civil rights, LGBTQ rights, social welfare, the environment etc etc AND gun rights is a real fucked place to be in this country. Every election you get to play "which rights am I voting to lose THIS time". Furthermore: gun laws like the AWB are written, almost universally, by people with no fucking idea what they're talking about. AR-15? Death machine of war. Ruger Mini 14? Have wood, not scare.
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u/BoukuNola Sep 24 '22
Democrats would be sweeping elections if they;
1) Stopped teasing everyone with legalization like a carrot on a stick
2) Dropped the “ban guns” nonsense. I live in Texas. If you don’t believe these people fantasize about killing you, go to ANY gun store on a busy day and listen in on conversations. These people are a fucking powder keg.
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u/Almostsuicide1234 Sep 24 '22
That's the thing the NorthEast and California democrat powers don't understand: in the South, where I also live, guns are a CULTURAL issue. Like it or hate it, the gun culture in this country will only change like any other cultural component: slowly. And the AR-15? It's the most widely owned rifle 8n the United States. Like it or hate it, it's not going anywhere.
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u/BoukuNola Sep 24 '22
It’s not. If someone can’t buy a gun from the US, they’ll just get them from the cartel.
Someone from my old job had a cousin from Mexico who got busted IN THE US for smuggling 4 RPGs. Yes, you read that correctly, rocket propelled grenades.
At least in the US, the sale of firearms is somewhat regulated. Emphasis on somewhat.
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u/straightouttasuburb Sep 24 '22
Agreed. Don’t live in a gated community but still feel safe living here because just about everyone here is a veteran of multiple conflicts and is armed to the teeth. Anyone coming into this neighborhood for mischief has a death wish. Also don’t fool yourselves… not every vet is a trump fan… a lot of us don’t like him… He wasn’t exactly kind to vets or active duty… however in any community you have good and bad…
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u/electricman420 Sep 24 '22
Definitely correct especially on your second point. All gun control is rooted in racism
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u/ipreferanothername Sep 25 '22
Seriously, as someone left of center who votes largely Democrat... They need to leave guns alone. Guns are not the problem. You won't get 400 million guns returned. It's akin to trying to ban guns and alcohol just... This is not the way
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u/Aryk93 Sep 24 '22
Why are they doubling down on this losing strategy.
Gun control does not win votes.
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u/Distinct_Sentence_26 Sep 24 '22
I'm pretty sure assault weapons are already banned unless you mean every single type of weapon that could be considered an assault weapon....
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u/User8675309021069 Sep 24 '22
We tried that before. It didn’t work. There are already 20 million AR-15 rifles in the hands of Americans.
All bans like that do is create at least 20 million “pre ban” firearms and make the prices of pre ban guns and magazines on the secondary market go up.
The ship on restricting supply has already sailed. Put all that time, energy and money into figuring out the mental health problem with our young men instead.
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u/magnoliasmanor Sep 25 '22
Thank you. It's clearly too late. You can't tell Pandora to put the emotions back in the box, she's too upset to.
How about... Push for Mental Health Assistance and bring back mental health facilities. Fucking Regan.
America has a mental health issue. Address that, leave the guns alone.
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u/dcdisco Sep 25 '22
Also tho, what is an Assault Weapon? There are wood rifles that dont look like "Assault" but fire the same ammo at the same rate. Are we just banning carbon fiber weapons??
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u/Strict-Succotash-405 Sep 24 '22
As long as there are standing armies with soldiers willing to destroy, I want an assault weapon
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u/b_sitz Sep 24 '22
All the trumpers around me have them. So I’ll keep mine.
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u/Lelio-Santero579 Sep 25 '22
Considering all the threats being made about what will happen surrounding Trump right now ... Add that to me living in rural Texas surrounded by crazy conservatives...
Yeaaaaa. I'll keep mine too.
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u/XrosRoadKiller Sep 24 '22
Hell No!
Please leave this topic alone during midterms!
Shut the fuck up and push Ukraine and RvW and Student Loans relief!
Leave this shit alone and do it after you rid the filibuster!
For God's sake stop mixing shit up at the last minute.
rant over
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u/jumpthewallstreet Sep 25 '22
Sadly this is not the solution to the real problems facing society. Assault weapons (terrible over simplification) are but tools used by both good and bad people. And the truth of the matter is that no matter the tools bad people will always find a way to do bad things. Mental health and education are the only true forms of help to our societies problems. And yes, they are not perfect solutions but they are a better step in the right direction. Please do not let a rally cry for a loud solution cover up the true problems.
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u/DeezHutts Sep 24 '22
And how are you going to enforce this law and make Americans give these "assault rifles" up
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u/inflo76 Sep 25 '22
They can't.
Also , have they ever defined "assault rifle "? That's one of those terms that they could use flexibly to include whatever they don't like at the moment
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u/LiliNotACult Sep 24 '22
Looks like we're about to have another ammo shortage.
Every single time democrats mention guns publicly, the gun nuts freak out and buy all of the ammo they have because they think the eViL dEmOcRaTa r cumin' for mah guns, cause an ammo shortage, then freak out over the ammo shortage and buy more.
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u/DJCOOKIII Sep 25 '22
I still can't find any .22 to target practice with, 😭 they never stopped hoarding it.
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u/joedoe1907 Sep 25 '22
Here’s some data: Let's go ahead and pump the breaks before shitting on constitutional rights for no fucking reason and look at some facts:
There are about 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, this number is not disputed. (1)
U.S. population 328 million as of January 2018. (2)
Do the math: 0.00915% of the population dies from gun related actions each year.
Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. It's not even a rounding error.
What is not insignificant, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths:
• 22,938 (76%) are by suicide which can't be prevented by gun laws (3)
• 987 (3%) are by law enforcement, thus not relevant to Gun Control discussion. (4)
• 489 (2%) are accidental (5)
So no, "gun violence" isn't 30,000 annually, but rather 5,577... 0.0017% of the population.
Still too many? Let's look at location:
298 (5%) - St Louis, MO (6)
327 (6%) - Detroit, MI (6)
328 (6%) - Baltimore, MD (6)
764 (14%) - Chicago, IL (6)
That's over 30% of all gun crime. In just 4 cities.
This leaves 3,856 for for everywhere else in America... about 77 deaths per state. Obviously some States have higher rates than others
Yes, 5,577 is absolutely horrific, but let's think for a minute...
But what about other deaths each year?
70,000+ die from a drug overdose (7)
49,000 people die per year from the flu (8)
37,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities (9)
Now it gets interesting:
250,000+ people die each year from preventable medical errors. (10)
You are safer in Chicago than when you are in a hospital!
610,000 people die per year from heart disease (11)
Even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save about twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.).
A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides.
Simple, easily preventable, 10% reductions!
We don't have a gun problem... We have a political agenda and media sensationalism problem.
Here are some statistics about defensive gun use in the U.S. as well.
https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#14
Page 15:
Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).
That's a minimum 500,000 incidents/assaults deterred, if you were to play devil's advocate and say that only 10% of that low end number is accurate, then that is still more than the number of deaths, even including the suicides.
Older study, 1995:
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6853&context=jclc
Page 164
The most technically sound estimates presented in Table 2 are those based on the shorter one-year recall period that rely on Rs' first-hand accounts of their own experiences (person-based estimates). These estimates appear in the first two columns. They indicate that each year in the U.S. there are about 2.2 to 2.5 million DGUs of all types by civilians against humans, with about 1.5 to 1.9 million of the incidents involving use of handguns.
r/dgu is a great sub to pay attention to, when you want to know whether or not someone is defensively using a gun
——sources——
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhamcs/web_tables/2015_ed_web_tables.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?tid=a_inl_manual
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-accidental-gun-deaths-20180101-story.html
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2018/11/13/cities-with-the-most-gun-violence/ (stats halved as reported statistics cover 2 years, single year statistics not found)
https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812603
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u/PLC55 Sep 24 '22
I thinks it’s funny as some of y’all rail against the insurance companies for being responsible for high medical costs, and still want these same companies to fuck another group of people.
I’m all for education, which should be done in the classroom. I think gun deaths amongst our youth can be fixed by have gun safety taught by licensed instructor for one 45 minute period each day for a week over the span of 3 years. Probably around the same time we teach sex Ed.
I also think that school counselors should be released from their administrative duties and have that vast majority of their time focused on students emotional needs and their future
Also: repeal the NFA
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u/gooch87 Sep 25 '22
Whats funny to me is that this 'assault weapons ban' that passed in the house allows someone to have a classic wood grained version of a Ruger mini-14 but bans the 'tactical' version that has a pistol grip and picatinny rail on the bottom of the gun. These things are for a comfort they dont change the function of the gun at all. They literally just want to ban the appearance of the gun
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u/Relativewind Sep 25 '22
I feel like November is so important and so close that maybe dems should STFU about things that really motivate the GOP base. Am I way off?
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u/rzr-12 Sep 24 '22
Let’s add gun license and insurance instead. Let’s treat them like the auto industry.
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u/DS_Unltd Sep 24 '22
But you don't actually need those to buy and own a car. Maybe to drive around town, but on your own property no license or insurance is needed.
It takes so long at a dealership because of inventory control and sales tactics. All those regulations go into making the user safe and reducing pollutjon, not in making pedestrians safe.
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u/ValhallaGo Sep 25 '22
First off: Shall not be infringed.
Second: if you raise the cost you’re just saying poor people shouldn’t have guns.
Third, you don’t have a constitutional right to drive, but you do have a right to bear arms.
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u/ScottTacitus Sep 25 '22
Reddidiots: there are these fascist theocrats coming to power. Maybe like Iran
Also redditers: we should disarm ourselves.
Cowards gonna cower
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Sep 25 '22
I think we should just ban Republicans and only let Democrats own weapons. Just to be a jerk. LOL
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u/SmokeAbeer Sep 25 '22
They do need to rebrand. Idk. The totally out of touch Party of America? The TOOT’s?
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u/kingdazy Sep 24 '22
What's the definition of assault weapon?
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u/brian11e3 Sep 24 '22
That seems to vary from state to state and bill to bill.
Commonly shared items seemed to be detachable magazines, folding/telescoping stocks, threaded barrels, forward grips, and internal magazines over a certain size.
I know Illinois tried to call every pistol with a detachable magazine an assault weapon back in 2013. 🤷
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u/Longjumping_War_807 Sep 24 '22
Any firearm that looks scary to people who don’t know anything about guns.
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u/z-eldapin Sep 24 '22
Do you not know, or are you a troll
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Sep 24 '22
the point is that nobody knows what makes a weapon an "assault weapon" and the term "assault weapon" is a very broad, blanket term used to describe weapons by people who have no idea what theyre talking about. What makes a weapon an assault weapon?
when gun enthusiasts hear the term "assault weapon" if they have any idea what theyre talkign about, the appropriate reaction to that is: What the fuck is an assault weapon?
a high magazine capacity? in my state you're limited to the same number whether you have a semi-auto pistol or rifle. You can have 15 rounds in a magazine in Colorado.
a cartride with a large amount of powder?
High bullet grain?
What about a semi-automatic shotgun?
Semi-automatic pistols are used in wars, does that mean they're assault weapons? Weapons of war?
They've use semi-automatic, low cartridge count rifles in wars. The M1 garand held 8 rounds, and was a heavy, mostly wood gun, and is an actual weapon of war used to "assault" our enemies. Is it the same as a Browning Automatic Rifle?
It appears that non-gun-knowledge-havers just want scary-looking guns that appear to be similar to an AR-15 platform, despite the guns actual ballistic capabilities.
I would make the argument that you can definitely kill alot of people with a glock 19, one of the most common guns in the country. Its lightweight, reliable, concealable, can hold 15 rounds, which is enough to kill 15 people in my opinion, depending on the operator of course, and theyre really cheap.
Plus all of those kids in chicago are killing eachother with semi-auto handguns, but nobody gives a shit about that do we? https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/chicago-crime-guns-chart/
The thing is: until we can actually define the thing that we want to be "banned" we can't do it. We can ban specific models, but theres alot of carbon copies out there. But if we can't actually define what an assault weapon is, how do we ban it?
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u/tazunemono Sep 24 '22
I'm a pro-gun liberal and would like an answer to this as well. I own several AR15, a Mini 14, and an AR10 (hand built by me) and none of these are assault weapons. So, what is? All mine are for self-defense, hobby/plinking (I shoot 3-gun), and the occasional hunt.
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u/NubbNubb Sep 24 '22
Doesn't help when people keep calling "assault style weapon" (which in itself seems kinda dumb) assault weapons which are IIRC already ban/restricted unless you have special licenses like you see on YouTube.
Or people think AR in AR-15 stands for Assault Rifle which it doesn't :/
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u/tazunemono Sep 24 '22
Yes AR stands for Armalite’s (Eugene Stoner’s) design. AR does not stand for assault rifle.
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u/TerrestrialCelestial Sep 25 '22
I've never owned a gun nor fired one. No desire to do either. The ban won't effect me in the slightest 😎 Bring it on 🎉 Anything is better than nothing when kids are being massacred in their classrooms.
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u/robidaan Sep 25 '22
Republicans are soo busy worshipping trump, that the bidon administration actually has time to make meaningful changes in the country.
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u/Particular_Pickle335 Sep 25 '22
This comment section is gold. You all really pulled together on this one. ☠
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u/sl_hawaii Sep 25 '22
Totally agree but I have a sneaky suspicion that the republicans will probably block this just like they blocked: anti-price gouging legislation, emergency baby food funding, transparency in political funding legislation, lower insulin prices, veterans benefits, infrastructure packages, and climate control efforts.
The republicans have only one goal: obstruct progress
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u/mrobb3 Sep 25 '22
Liberals need to start getting smart and start learning how to use guns. There are a bunch of crazy Trump supporters out there. Their numbers may be small but they're still dangerous. Quit trying to take the moral high ground with these people and play at their level. They're outnumbered by everyone else but if people don't band together then those traitors will get away with their bull.
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u/Sensitive-Holiday-35 Sep 25 '22
How to lose all the momentum you had going into the midterms in 1 tweet.... JFC!
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u/Vorenthral Sep 25 '22
We don't have a gun problem we have an ideology and social contract problem. Our politics have become so weaponized with a stupid us vs them mentality people we label as other are our enemies instead of our neighbors. Banning "assault weapons" won't do anything.
The violence issues we have in the US are deep and multifaceted. We glorify murders with super star like fame. We have weaponized opinion and undermined active discourse.
Until we fix our media and education systems we will have mass shootings. If they have to use a muzzle loader they will.
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u/reallifeswanson Sep 25 '22
He really needs to focus on keeping the wounds raw from Roe. This is too risky at such a desperate time.
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u/GangloSax0n Sep 25 '22
Ban C&C machining, ban brass foundries commercial AND civilian, better ban chemistry textbooks too.
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u/RockSkippa Sep 25 '22
Nah way too many psychos lately. Gun culture is ingrained in this country- too deep seated. You’ll never get rid of em. If you can’t beat ‘em , join em.
Be properly armed, trained, and above all vigilant. Don’t boast about your weapons, post them online, or make them your personality. Have them, know how to use them, when to use them, and when to stop. Know the law and your rights. Be smart and brave, not cocky or afraid. Know that not everyone is a monster, but some are, and unfortunately words or a taser won’t work against everything.
The cops have shown they won’t save you or your kids. They’re human and afraid for their own life more. They’re more likely to kill you than anything else.
It’s up to you to defend yourself, train yourself, properly lock up your weapons, be safe with them, and only use them when necessary.
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u/adultosaurs Sep 24 '22
Stop stanning politicians for saying things they very very very very very very very very clearly will do nothing about.
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u/brian11e3 Sep 24 '22
Anyone remember the 2014 Kunming train station attack that killed 31 people and injured more than 140 others?
Time to ban assault knives.
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u/Heil_Hipster Sep 25 '22
We might need them. Russia is getting pretty squirrely. Also, this really shows how little the people in the sub understand history. Like if you look throughout history, war is pretty much constant. Places don't go for more than a few hundred years without having war. So like we kind of need weapons. I hate that people are murdered with them, but if we don't have them and other people do, we will get murdered and they will murder us. I don't want to be murdered. I know you guys will download me to hell and think that I'm some kind of crazy person or whatever, but do remember that most cities in the south, you can go to the middle of town and find a memorial for the Civil War battle that was fought there. That was only 150 years ago. War can comment anytime and it is horrible. We would much rather be able to defend ourselves than to not. And I'm sure some people are thinking that most people wouldn't last very long if war broke out, which is true. But we will last a lot longer as a people if we are armed then we would if we are not armed.
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u/Saltyrise51 Sep 25 '22
Assault weapons? So not just guns anymore? What’s an assault weapon?
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u/konigstigerboi Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22
But we need a specific definition of assault weapon
Carbine?
Battle rifle?
Semi auto?
SBR/Marksman?
Capacity?
Accuracy?
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u/Hull-your-MC Sep 25 '22
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Change my mind.
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u/MrBoomBox69 Sep 24 '22
Not the best idea. Treat guns like cars and ur on the right track. People that own guns need to be competent enough to not be “human” if they need to use it.
I’d say mandatory training lessons in firearm safety, theory behind self defense situations and a routine license renewal. That’s the bare minimum your need if you’re going to operate killing machines. Personally I’d never own a gun, I’d much rather just shoot one at a range. And I’m sure the people that like to own and use guns regularly would be more than happy to know that them and everyone like them are at least somewhat knowledgeable about how to use that device the same way drivers trust other drivers to not go bat shit crazy on the wheel everytime they drive.
But I’m not politician or expert so don’t hound me on this comment lol.
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u/ValhallaGo Sep 25 '22
You don’t have a right to drive. You do however have a right to bear arms.
Licensing just prices out poor people.
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u/D3FAU1T00 Sep 24 '22
I'd like to think most people who own firearms know how to properly use them. Being somebody who owns them myself, even "assault weapons", everybody who I go to the range with know the basic rules of safety and how to properly operate their firearms. Education is the key. People need to know how to operate these tools properly and that they're not toys. To me, an "assault weapons" ban would only stop law abiding gun owners from being able to defend ourselves when criminals are already breaking these laws
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u/clunkerbob Sep 25 '22
Please don't look at inflation. Please don't look at inflation. Please don't look at inflation.
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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22
I don't know. We might need them to protect ourselves from Christian Nationalist Nazis.