r/pics Sep 24 '22 Silver 7 Gold 4 Helpful 6 Wholesome 5 Take My Energy 2 Faith In Humanity Restored 1 Bravo! 1 Ally 1 Narwhal Salute 2 Bravo Grande! 1 Helpful (Pro) 2 Respect 1 Reddit Orichalcum 1

This is what bravery looks like. Iranian women protesting for their human rights! Protest

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86.2k Upvotes

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u/Greaserpirate Sep 24 '22

Cool but censor their faces, there are Iranian police trying to track them down

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u/lebronron Sep 24 '22

The one on the top left happened in the Netherlands, so she should be ok

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u/PancAshAsh Sep 24 '22

So long as she never goes home again.

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u/kempofight Sep 24 '22

Welll.... she prob would have been arrested going home before the pritest anyway

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u/Jodie_fosters_beard Sep 24 '22

Bottom left was Turkey.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22 edited 25d ago Wholesome

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u/Badbhoys Sep 24 '22

Good point but i think you might want to tell the news that

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u/Zippy1avion Sep 24 '22

Track women down in a country where women are covered in public.

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u/Greaserpirate Sep 24 '22

They're the police. They have records.

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u/dude19832 Sep 24 '22

Nice to see some men in there too who are over this religious extremism shit.

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u/jazzinyourfacepsn Sep 24 '22

Talk to any person from Iran, the majority of citizens do not want the Islamic Regime, but have no power in electing what they want

There are Morality Police in Iran that arrest and beat people that aren't following Shari'a law. Citizens don't have a choice and are imprisoned for opposing

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u/duendeacdc Sep 24 '22

how can this be fixed?Legit question because i can only think on video games options like other counties invading and,yeah.

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u/GReaperEx Sep 24 '22

how can this be fixed?

Revolution.

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u/Version_Two Sep 24 '22

Not the peaceful kind

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u/paulHarkonen Sep 24 '22

Whether or not it's peaceful is up to the people in power. They can decide to bow to the will of the people and have a (mostly) peaceful transition or they can dig in and then it becomes a bloody revolution.

Unfortunately Iran's rulers have made it pretty clear they are going to choose violence.

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u/squeakywall Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

-A revolution is coming – a revolution which will be peaceful if we are wise enough; compassionate if we care enough; successful if we are fortunate enough – but a revolution which is coming whether we will it or not. We can affect its character; we cannot alter its inevitability.---JFK

Edit: RFK, not JFK

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u/DragonDon1 Sep 24 '22

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable.” ~ JFK

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/paulHarkonen Sep 24 '22

Always give your enemies a way to retreat. If they have no chance to survive they will fight to the death, if they can escape they may surrender instead saving you a lot of lost lives.

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u/ryanmr20 Sep 24 '22

Is that Sun Tzu I recognize?

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u/beardMoseElkDerBabon Sep 24 '22

Yes, it is. Wise people here, I see.

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u/nyanlol Sep 24 '22

there's a reason a lot of dictators are allowed a nice polite exile in another country. it's easier

like napoleon

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u/helodriver87 Sep 24 '22

Not just in war. In any kind of conflict, it benefits you to keep escape routes open for your adversary. That doesn't mean being willfully blind, you need to know how to close them off if the time comes, but an adversary with an out is easier to beat most of the time. Even in a civil debate, leaving room for someone to feel like they didn't completely lose the argument makes them more likely to concede important points.

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u/LetsAbortGod Sep 24 '22

You’ve put you finger on why popular uprisings so rarely bring about regime change, especially in the modern era. A disorganised collective is usually unable to offer clear and credible terms of capitulation - add this to the massive power imbalance and it’s a recipe for protracted violence.

The Iranian people have suffered enough - let’s hope they get the support they desperately need from the international community.

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u/1111Lin Sep 24 '22

A revolution got Iran to this point

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u/jannyhammy Sep 24 '22

You’re right. Asking nicely never works.

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u/serendipitousevent Sep 24 '22

Yep. The dictatorial types are always so brave until they see the lamppost.

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u/snp3rk Sep 24 '22

Specifically the French version!

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

Did someone say there would be cake?

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u/DocCox988 Sep 24 '22

Oh the same way it started.

A few generations of terror spawns a generation brave enough to step up and that flows into a comfortable generation afraid to stand up and back to the extremists that literally feel like their afterlife of paradise depends on them destroying their own peoples freedoms

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u/smallz86 Sep 24 '22

Guns and death, unfortunately

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u/jazzinyourfacepsn Sep 24 '22

Everyone is saying revolution, but it's so much more complicated than that

Iran didn't get in this position on its own, external powers have influenced most of how things are today

Most notably, the UK and CIA funded coup in the 1950's that snowballed into the revolution of 1979.

In summary, the UK and CIA was didn't like the democratic direction Iran was going because it would effect their oil supply, so they funded a coup to overthrow the government and reinstate their monarchy

Iran’s nationalist hero was jailed, the monarchy restored under the Western-friendly shah, and Anglo-Iranian oil — renamed British Petroleum (BP) — tried to get its fields back

Iran exports 420,000 barrels of oil derivatives per day currently. External powers like that and don't want that to change.

Revolutions of the people are likely consistently thwarted by similar outside sources, and it might take something bigger like the UN getting involved for actual change to happen

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u/Neonsands Sep 24 '22 Take My Energy

It's not quite so simple. The lead-up to this dates forever back, but as the cliffnotes go, the Persian empire weakened and fell apart after centuries of in-fighting. What we now know as Iran used to be much larger and ultimately the Qajar dynasty took power sometime in the late 1700s. The Qajar dynasty was famous for hoarding wealth in their castles and by the end they had mismanaged the area to such an extent that they sold off what is now Azerbaijain, Georgia, etc. to the USSR to hold off a revolution form their own people.

Well, as dynasties tend to, eventually there were too many problems and their leader's ability to lead got so diluted that a military general overthrew the government and created an Imperial state. This was Reza Shah. He re-unified the country and put up a stronger front against outside influence, but was largely a despot and didn't empower his people and hoarded to control to only those around him that he believed faithful.

Well, during his rule WWII kicked off and things started going south all around him. Nothing quite near Iran, but Germany kept pushing further and further in their conquest of land. And as we know, wars require a lot of wealth & resources. In 1941 the Germans pushed into the USSR and caused a huge change in strategy from the Russians. Well, they were working with the Axis Powers, so they devised a plan to basically conquer the recently isolationist Iran from the East and the West with their combined might so that they could control the Persian Gulf and prevent the Germans from using it, as well as taking control of the oil in the region. The Anglo-Soviet Invasion of Iran lasted all of 6 days and resulted in the forcible exile of Reza Shah and the implementation of his son, Mohammad Reza Shah, as new leader with the express purpose of being more open to giving oil to outside powers in return for the sharing of knowledge, military skills, culture, etc.

So both the Brits and the USSR were the big influences in the region, and Mohammad Reza Shah loved the clothing and culture of France so he pushed for big improvements in the cultural departments of nationalism, art, and film. Well, soon after WWII closed, the US and the USSR were now at ends with each other. They started offering more influence in the region so the US and UK would have power of Iran and the USSR would be forced out. Well, throughout this process Mohammad Reza Shah was more meant to be a king figure while the government itself was a democracy that ran itself with him only overseeing it slightly. Eventually one of their Prime Minister's, Mohammad Mosaddegh, was elected and spoke out against being caught in between these two forces and believed Iran should nationalize their oil and find independence from getting caught in this proxy war. There are arguments that his beliefs leaned more socialist and could've been influenced by the USSR, but ultimately the US and UK deposed him and supported a coup that turned the democracy into more of an authoritarian regime for Mohammad Reza Shah where he had sole control.

This ultimately led to the White Revolution where Mohammad Reza Shah forced extreme cultural shifts. Some policies were good (bringing home the Cyrus Cylinder, setting up natural heritage sites like Persepolis for tourism, etc.) but overwhelmingly these changes were looked at as too extreme and fast for a country that was proud of its own roots. He also became threatened by the rise in Islam (which has its own historical roots of Persians being tricked into opening their gates and being burned by it before) and started forcing women to not wear religious dress (see France's current views on the hijab) which caused the same kind of distress that we're seeing now with the revolts about forced hijab wear. So, Khomeini gained a lot of traction for being a seemingly level-headed leader who promised equality for everyone and the expulsion of western influence and the revolution happened in 79. Ultimately, he went back on basically all of the promises he made to rile up his base of women supporters and now we're roughly at where we are today.

tl;dr This was a situation overwhelmingly caused by the brits and the USSR, which America stuck its nose into because they didn't want the USSR to get any wins. Khomeini made promises about freedom of religion and dress to women, then after taking power immediately went against that and created religious police to force women to conform.

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u/Negran Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

There's always a really dark, fucked up truth to most things. I hate it. But thanks for sharing!

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u/Punqer Sep 24 '22

Yep, the last century of Iran's history is littered with outside forces manipulating their power structure in order to keep the black gold flowing. It would be wise for westerners to look first at how their own tax dollars funded regime change in Iran. In the west we usually think of women as followers of men, these women are proving that ain't so in Iran. More Power To Them, May They Prevail!

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u/remembertherats Sep 24 '22

Also the revolution didn't have to lead to an Islamic state, we just made it way more likely by letting the shah come to the US during the revolution

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u/daffydunk Sep 24 '22

Same way they got to where there are now, exactly what you are seeing. Iran was fairly progressive in the 60s and 70s until the Islamic Revolution, intended to force out international dealings & prevent the introduction of communism. Within a couple years, it was over. Could happen again.

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u/mdonaberger Sep 24 '22

What Iran needs is a democracy that is actually elected by the people (and not foreign intelligence services), free from the influence of religious extremism or the Pahlavi family. I see everyone celebrating the son of the Shah because he's speaking against the Islamic regime, but man, it is hard to imagine how bad of an idea inviting the Shah back would be.

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u/kauniskissa Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

No, some urban areas in Iran were relatively progressive. The reason the Islamic Revolution had massive support from the general population was because the rest of the population (everyone else besides city progressives) resented the puppet government for forcing westernization on them.

It went from a pro-Western secular authoritarian monarchy to an anti-Western Islamist theocracy; neither are great.

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u/xclame Sep 24 '22

Apart from the part about outsiders pushing their beliefs on them they sound just like any other country. The people in cities, near cities or any big community are progressive whereas the people that are rural and more in the boondocks are more conservative. Which totally makes sense if you think about it because those places that are more isolated don't get affected by change as quickly or as much so the people living there want to keep the lifestyle that they are used to. Part of the reason that city folks are more progressive is exactly because things in their life are constantly changing and easy example is buildings and neighborhoods. Rural places on the other hand might still look the same way it did 100 years ago in some ways.

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u/Lancaster61 Sep 24 '22

Sounds to me they need a Freedom Police force to arrest the Morality Police force.

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u/zsreport Sep 24 '22

And it's scary that so many conservatives here in the US would love to have a morality of their own telling us sinners how to live our lives and brutality punishing us if we resist.

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u/tingulz Sep 24 '22

The so called “morality police” and the people who support them are anything but moral.

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u/Cthulhu_Dreams_ Sep 24 '22

How the f*** Americans can't see this as the eventual end game of Evangelical Christian nationalists...

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u/kebeckistan Sep 24 '22

I thought Morality Police was only a thing in deep Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, but sure enough...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guidance_Patrol

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u/jazzinyourfacepsn Sep 24 '22

Yup. They're some of the most vile, hated people in the country

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u/Sawses Sep 24 '22

It's a common misconception that a patriarchy is men oppressing women. It's society oppressing everybody.

"Patriarchy" is an academic term that's come into common use and been deeply misunderstood by laypeople. It's a pretty common theme in activism, unfortunately.

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u/wolfpack_charlie Sep 24 '22

Patriarchy is men oppressing women and men. You're right that it's complicated, because women can uphold the patriarchy, but there is absolutely a reason the word is based on "patris"

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u/Sawses Sep 24 '22

Not at all. This is a very common misunderstanding, and one I myself bought into until I took a gender studies course and got to read some of the foundational literature in the field.

It's called a patriarchy because it holds male gender roles (whatever that might be) as the ideal. Women are active participants in patriarchy in much the same way men are, and for largely the same reasons. We just focus on women as the victims because they tend to suffer more on average (though with many exceptions), and activism requires a clear, simple message to be effective.

It leads to oppression of anybody who doesn't meet those roles--including all men, since it forces them into their gender roles. Men reinforce it and women reinforce it--without both, patriarchy couldn't exist.

It's not men oppressing men and women--it's everybody and all our social structures.

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u/ProfessionalOctopuss Sep 24 '22

What is the technical term for men societally oppressing women?

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u/Sawses Sep 25 '22

There isn't really one, because it's not a meaningful statement in the context of gender studies. A core concept in the field is that society's structure is why people behave the way they do, and that the most feasible way to address inequality is addressing those structures. It's a matter of cause and effect.

To say that men "societally oppress" women is a bit like saying "Men societally drive cars". Yes, men drive cars, but so do women, and we both do so at a large scale for a whole slew of reasons despite ethical concerns and often in the full knowledge that we might prefer a better way.

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u/Picklepunky Sep 24 '22

Patriarchy is systemic, but it is continually reproduced and contested by individuals. It’s deeply rooted in our systems and ideologies and internalized by all genders in society. It hurts women and men, yes, but many men (who embrace hegemonic masculinity) benefit from it. In a patriarchal system, masculinities are viewed as superior to femininities, so men are especially limited in what are “acceptable” ways to behave. Which is harmful to men as they receive severe pushback if they don’t meet masculine ideals. Basically, shit’s complex and fucked up and deeply, deeply internalized.

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u/Onion1995 Sep 24 '22

But women have it way worse under patriarchy…

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u/New-Name-Simeon Sep 24 '22

I’m so impressed with the women of Iran. You are correct, this is what true bravery looks like.

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u/NihilisticPollyanna Sep 24 '22

Yes! This is so inspiring and humbling at the same time. These women are incredible!

Though, I also want to commend all the men standing with them in support and solidarity. It makes me so happy to see that not all men are disgusting, bigoted bastards, as the media's representation of that region often would have you believe.

I since sincerely hope Iran gets the changes its fighting for.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22 edited 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/diito Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

That's just their male chaperones. What kind of person would let a woman roam the streets unsupervised? /s

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u/LoveFishSticks Sep 24 '22

In this case if a man cares about a woman who is attending the protest I would hope he would come along not only out of support for the cause but to offer some additional protection for her in the dangerous environment of these protests

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u/PC509 Sep 24 '22

Allies that are not part of the group fighting for rights are always excellent. The ones that break the stereotype and the mold are amazing.

the media's representation of that region often would have you believe.

Some media is disgusting and want to villainize other people. Other pieces of media show a much better representation and can paint a different picture (almost too good at times). I guess it's either a political manipulator or a travel piece of media...

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u/GR8dantini Sep 24 '22

This is exactly the behavior our overlords fear the most. This is what happens when people work together instead of against each other over the distractions they throw at us to keep us from doing this everywhere.

These women are 10x stronger and 1000x braver than 99% of people in this earth at the moment.

Bravery comes in many many forms and acts. But this is what revolution actually looks like. I see this and feel safer in the states cuz we don’t have this kind of energy en masse, yet. We don’t have a common principled cause yet.

Be strong and safe my Iranian brothers and sisters.

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u/gaea27 Sep 24 '22

Yea seeing men in these photos is really incredible it fills me with hope. When we fight against oppression we need people on our side who have more social power than us. Also men are obviously affected too, gay men especially.

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u/copper_rainbows Sep 24 '22

Wow you’re right I did a zoom and there’s way more dudes there than I expected. Awesome!!

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u/Ameerrante Sep 24 '22

Obviously the USA is a totally different culture, but I hang out with about five different men and one other woman on a regular basis (gaming group), and I don't see why any of the guys would want the women to be subservient. It would just make their lives harder.

Lacking bigotry results in a much larger pool of resources, talents, and priorities to strengthen the overall community.

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u/DJBabyB0kCh0y Sep 24 '22

I since sincerely hope Iran gets the changes its fighting for.

The craziest part is that they had it. I know it was just some choice photo ops but you look at photos pre Iranian Revolution and Tehran looks like Haight-Asbury. And nobody got killed for it till '78.

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u/RonnieJamesDionysos Sep 24 '22

Unfortunately, Iran has a long history of killing women for either wearing the headscarf when it was not allowed, or not wearing it when it was obligatory (either by culture or by law).

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u/GreenBottom18 Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

saw a video on twitter of a woman comforting her young teen daughter, as she was crying after being attacked by law enforcement at a protest.

[allegedly] she told her to be brave, and not let them instill fear in her.

losing a child is a pain that only subsides when you die. this woman was willing to risk that, to protect other people's daughters, for generations

it shook me.

crying just thinking about it.

we can't let them lose this one. if they need help, we have to take to the streets.

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u/lookatthemonkeys Sep 24 '22

I thought true bravery was not watching the NFL for a season to own the libs...

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u/MathMaddox Sep 24 '22

Damn I’ve been owning the libs for years and not realizing it. I’ll begrudgingly watch commercials sprinkled with some football because I choose blue.

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u/eslforchinesespeaker Sep 24 '22

I love this. Also, a True Patriot stays home on Election Day, and doesn’t vote! Don’t fall into to Biden’s trap!

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u/Doctor_Wookie Sep 24 '22

Fuck. Does that mean I need to START watching football as a lib? I don't wanna. I also don't wanna own myself, I'm a free man dammit!!!

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u/Yojimbones Sep 24 '22

It really is. Not at all like protesting in the United States. Acts like this could mean death to you and your immediate family.

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u/ValyrianJedi Sep 24 '22

A few years ago I had to go to the Congo for a finance firm I worked for. The 4 of us had 8 armed guards, and driving across the country ran into a couple of small roving militias, then when we were at one of the mines that we were there to see a riot started, the mine guards started shooting, our guards got ready to start shooting, and the workers/apparently people from some rival group started attacking people...

Any time I'm reading about a situation like this I try to go back in my head to what those situations felt like, and the feelings of raw dread and terror in your chest... The fact that these people are willingly putting themselves in a situation like that to stand up for what they believe in is utterly mind blowing to me. I know I sure as hell wouldn't be able to. Anything short of my wife or kids' lives being in danger and there isn't a chance in hell...

The words "brave" and "courage" and all get thrown around a lot these days, and it seems like what these people are doing goes so far that those words barely even cut it anymore.

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u/KitsBeach Sep 24 '22

They are killing people in the streets over the simple fact that women want to stop being seen as objects that things happen to. Women are human beings with the same rights as men, if men are the doers and women are the ones that have things done to them that's not equality.

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u/TeslasAndComicbooks Sep 24 '22

This is how they end protests. Iran has a major protest every few years and the government will send under covers into the crowd to cause fights and straight murder people.

Some 1,500 people got killed after a protest a few years back.

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u/LuxuriousFeedback54 Sep 25 '22

I love the fact that Iranian men is right there with women providing them strong support.

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u/cscottrun233 Sep 24 '22 Wholesome

Women have had to fight their entire human existence to be seen as actual people. It happens in every county. Even here as an American. It’s nauseating

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u/Nimrond Sep 24 '22

For most of mankind's history - when we were hunter-gatherers - our societies were likely pretty egalitarian, and women didn't have to fight to be seen as people. That seems to have changed with the accumulation of wealth, which made defending, raiding and war more important, and with it men. And like many systems, it became self-perpetuating.

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u/mycroft16 Sep 24 '22

For a fair bit of history women even ran the villages. Managed things. Men were just the hunter/gathers. That absolutely changed as you said.

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u/metameh Sep 24 '22

"The Dawn of Everything" by Wengrow and the late (and great IMO) Graeber delves into this topic. Humans have always been inventive when it comes to government and societal structure. More than a few ancient cities, and even some societies, were most likely "egalitarian" and/or matriarchal.

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u/metameh Sep 24 '22

"The Dawn of Everything" by Wengrow and the late (and great IMO) Graeber delves into this topic. Humans have always been inventive when it comes to government and societal structure. More than a few ancient cities, and even some societies, were most likely "egalitarian" and/or matriarchal.

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u/Jezusbot Sep 24 '22

And the entire conservative party wants to push the country back into those days, starting with Roe V. Wade

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u/Fockputin33 Sep 24 '22

Thats why you don't vote for RELIGIOUS Zealots who shouldn't be Politicians if they want to impose their religious views upon others(Republicans).

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u/mycroft16 Sep 24 '22

Not wants to. IS. Currently happening.

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u/ChattyKathysCunt Sep 24 '22

Once again religion is the root of the problem. At the most fundamental level they will never accept this sitting down. Now its a fight "in the name of god" and people do really scary shit.

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u/ahundreddots Sep 24 '22

If it really is every religion, as your comment implies, that would suggest this goes much deeper than religion.

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u/ChattyKathysCunt Sep 24 '22

Human nature of manipulating others for personal gain.

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u/mycroft16 Sep 24 '22

Religion just happens to be the most effective vehicle we've found for the age old tool of manipulation... fear. Fear to reinforce a widely held confirmation bias = power. It's shockingly simple and takes the barest of nudges to get started. It self perpetuates from there.

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u/nefariousclockking Sep 24 '22

Personal practice of religion is fine. When practicing a religion becomes an expectation, or it controls social policies, then bad things happen

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u/blueheartsadness Sep 24 '22

Religion is mind control. A way to control the masses with psychological fear tactics.

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u/VoiceofKane Sep 24 '22

Religion's pretty far down the tree, but the root is slightly lower. It's about conservatism, plain and simple. They aren't doing this because their God commands it - it's because they want to keep their traditional power structure in place at any cost. Religion is just a handy shield for that.

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u/elden-pings Sep 24 '22

There's a feedback loop between conservatism and religion. I wouldn't call religion a mere shield. If we lived in a world without religion, and these extremists did not have these backward ideas packaged in a convenient book with community support... would they still be violent conservative misogynists? Or just normal people?

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u/bruce_cockburn Sep 24 '22

Funny thing is that conservative misogynists don't have to be religious - that's just the form where they have the most defenders and advocates, like Donald Trump. If religion was all that, it would be easy to get rid of. The reality is that the historical advocates who ended slavery were chiefly religious. Many of these religious advocates adapted existing verses to recognize certain modern philosophies from non-religious sources, but the tenacity to advocate for change in the face of violent repression and targeted antagonism is where disorganized people tend to come up short.

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u/taggosaurus Sep 24 '22

Some people argue Hijab is a choice. It's like a lion tamer saying that lion has a choice whether to perform tricks or get beaten by the whip.

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u/-shabushabu Sep 24 '22

And in the US we're actively trying to get a Christian version of this mess back on the table... Women and non straight people stripped of their rights to control their own bodies, their sex lives, and their own healthcare...

We have a Republican candidate, supported by the former president and the party leadership, that just said women shouldn't be allowed to vote... Plus newly emboldened religious leaders looking to hurt LGBTQ people and their families as well as send women back to the 1300's.

Yes this shit in Iran is horrific, but it's also entirely our future, just with a different magic book, if we don't stand up and refuse to allow it here.

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u/Curlypeeps Sep 24 '22

Is there any way to support them?

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u/elli3snailie Sep 24 '22

Share about us as much as u can. Videos ,everything. Not all of the footage looks like that , its a war scene in many cities and the world needs to see that and pressure our government.

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u/mindfungus Sep 24 '22

Isn’t sharing photos putting people at risk, with the government scouring pics to eventually imprison protestors, or worse?

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u/elli3snailie Sep 24 '22

These photos seem to be from Iranians abroad, here ppl wear masks at the protests. If it were like that i would def metion it. If u wanna share the photos and see faces in them without a mask please do blur them . Same with videos

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u/NeuroticKnight Sep 24 '22

You can host a proxy server for Iranian Signal app,

https://signal.org/blog/run-a-proxy/

helps people communicate and avoid government blocks. Cost nothing but a little bit of bandwidth.

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u/GrumpyGourmet1 Sep 24 '22

i thought bravery was taking off your mask and yelling at a walmart employee

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u/TheSimonToUrGarfunkl Sep 24 '22

That's not bravery until you lie about fake medical conditions then play the victim

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u/Version_Two Sep 24 '22

And also make up laws about medical confidentiality

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u/apollo888 Sep 24 '22

Hey fuck you the USC HIPPA HOA regs clearly state I can sputter my incoherent rage spit anywhere I want.

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u/sunnydaysahead2022 Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

I am humbled by these women. They are so brave. They are risking their lives for freedom.

Go Iran Go!!

Edited to remove the flag.

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u/appleparkfive Sep 24 '22

I hope Iran gets on the right track. Somewhat selfishly because I've always wanted to visit. I mean I'd love to see some Persian history. And it just seems like a cool place outside of the government and power issues.

I've heard that theyre some of the nicest people ever to outsiders as well. The common people, not the government

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u/Thewolf1970 Sep 24 '22

Many people posting here might be too young, but Iran had a moderate government up to about 1978 when the Shah, the leader at the time was overthrown by fundamentalist and was replaced by the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Prior to that there were women being educated in colleges, wearing mini skirts and other similar fashions of the day. It was a very progressive country and we were allied with them.

There is a bit if a dark history in that our CIA essentially put the Shah in power because, well, oil. But this recent series of protests feels like the start of another Arab Spring. We'll have to see what this does.

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u/Plethora_of_squids Sep 24 '22

Prior to that there were women being educated in colleges, wearing mini skirts and other similar fashions of the day.

Correction - in the major cities among the middle and upper class

Things were still really not great for women out in the country or if you were poor. Iran was not some bastion of equality and freedom under the Shah by a looooooong shot

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u/thenewtbaron Sep 24 '22

Oh, don't forget the conservative is government broke its own laws to support the Islamic take over and holding of Iran.

Remember Reagan and olly north. They decided to help run drugs and guns between conservative death squads in central america(which we helped with) and a conservative Iran.

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u/hexydes Sep 24 '22

Great plan. It gets drugs into the inner-cities where the Republicans can militarize the police and arrest half the black citizens of the United States. It was literally just the end-game of Nixon's original war on drugs aimed at "radicals" and black US citizens.

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u/misogichan Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

It wasn't just about oil. They were a strong economy that many forecasted would become or already was a major world power. Specifically they were one of the fastest growing economies in the world for decades resulting in National Income rising over 423 times. All with very low inflation, low unemployment, and big investments into infrastructure and education.

Even more importantly, they were seen as the major obstacle blocking the Soviet's ambition into the Middle East. They became the 5th strongest military in the world by 1977 (and the Soviets notably only invaded Afganistan after the Shah fell).

They also maintained support for women suffrage, and the freedom of religion in their country even for minorities. Albeit there was criticism in Western press of human rights abuses by the Shah's security forces as he was an authoritarian ruler, but in terms of countries in the middle east that would maintain friendly relations with Israel, the Shah was basically the only one on the list, and certainly the only one worth mentioning.

Also to be clear it wasn't just the US using the Shah as a puppet. They held the power to pick and choose their friends and were also close to China (despite some communist uprisings that were stopped), and were seen as a rising hegemonic power in the region.

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u/doctorwhomafia Sep 24 '22

It's one of those double sided swords.. sure most people hate authoritarian leaders, especially if they oppress their opponents.

But at the same time, the ones that got targeted the most, happen to be the radical groups.

What's more dangerous to your Authoritarian Rule or infact any form of government? Those who put radical ideas into the minds your average citizens.

I am in no way supporting these dictators.. but there's a reason why you come across people who occasionally say "Libya was better under Gaddafi, Iraq was better under Hussein, Egypt was better under Mubarak, and Iran was better under Pahlavi"

Because even though they did some horrible things, they also suppressed some of the more crazier radical islamic groups. Now you can also debate their initial suppression is what led to them becoming more radical over time to.

I think most people who do remember and say "those times were better" often do so in regards to two main things

  1. It was much more stability, peaceful, no crazy Islamic terrorist groups vying for control with each other. Felt more safe in the sense that you wouldn't be killed by car bombs, suicide bombers, or having a massive gun fights break out between opposing groups.

  2. Some of those dictators we're more open to progressive ideas, because a lot of them saw that as a way to be more internationally recognized and appealing to western investors and tourism. Which in return expanded their economy.

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u/Thewolf1970 Sep 24 '22

I think you hit the nail on the head. I was attempting to simplify the issue. Possibly too much, but at the very minimum, there is a much longer and larger tribal issue going on in that region. Longer than the history of this country for sure. And most of it we continue to not understand.

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u/gabbledygool Sep 24 '22

the start of another Arab Spring.

How exactly? You know that Iran is not Arab right? And that many of the Arab spring protests were against secular governments and actually led to Islamists seizing power?

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u/Thewolf1970 Sep 24 '22

I understand Iran is not Arabic, the comparison is indicative of what was happening by the citizens in countries like Egypt, Libya, Iraq, etc where they were clashing against the government. Mostly against corruption, social media control, and shutting down the I telnet, (sound familier?).

In some cases yes, non se ular governme t were formed, in others civil war still rages.

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u/CompetitiveCommie Sep 24 '22

What the fuck? Iranian women are MORE educated than men.

The Shah was a brutal dictator with his own Gestapo secret police.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

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u/Iliamna_remota Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Too sexy. Cover that hair. Nowhere is it ok for public pornography. JK, wtf? Isn't that basically what Iran is saying?

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u/r0ndy Sep 24 '22

Yup. Your hair is too sexy. Better hide it.

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u/F_A_F Sep 24 '22

Change your dress because its more appropriate to that than expect men to....you know....not want to sexually assault you...

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u/Iliamna_remota Sep 24 '22

Huge opportunity over there for black market porno mags of the backs of ladies heads.

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u/Guagdiggly Sep 24 '22

Oh God this protest has forced all the morality police to uncontrollably cum in all their pants and now there is a pants shortage all because women show hair! It definitely is because women show hair and not because the men can't hold in gallons of cum that shoots out uncontrollably when they see hair

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u/catlaxative Sep 24 '22

Yes, and if a woman is sexy a man will sin, and there’s just no way around that so hurry under this blanket, ma’am!

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u/Iliamna_remota Sep 24 '22

Where I live we have nudity laws. So if there's some drunk person comically flopping her breasts in public everyone is like OMFG. Imagine having that reaction for hair. Moms shield children's eyes. Boys get boners. Hard to imagine for hair.

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u/Adventurous-Text-680 Sep 24 '22

What's even crazier is that if that same drunk person was a guy nobody would bat an eye and might even join in. Heck guys paint their breasts to bare on national TV during sporting events. Women doing the same are shamed and told to cover up.

Most states have equal rights to be topless for both men and women.

https://gotopless.org/topless-laws

Though women will sometimes still be arrested even though it's perfectly legal. This is in the land of the free.

Imagine if we told guys to put a shirt on at the beach or even arrest them. Nobody would consider that.

Take that feeling of thinking it's silly to tell a guy to cover up their breasts at the beach but without never second guess doing that to a woman. Even in the US we have inequality due to wanting to "prevent men from sin".

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u/Iliamna_remota Sep 24 '22

Heh, yeah. Legal as it may be if we see a woman's breasts in public it's unexpected. So hair will be in Iran. You're right it's kind of an arbitrary line dependent upon local consensus and they don't have to be like us. Yes we have to respect differences, but mandatory hijabs are just dumb.

I'm with you. I ardently support full breast liberation. But this is Iran.

In the argument "heads/hair is okay to show", adding "and titties too", is perhaps not the ideal timing and way to persuade those worried about a slippery slope of moral decline. Idk.

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u/Adventurous-Text-680 Sep 24 '22

It's about opening people's eyes to what gender equality means.

The hijab is an example of extreme sexual repression because people are afraid of what men will do. They take the victim and reduce their rights to "protect" them. It's the same reasoning with bare breasts.

My point is that even if laws make something no longer illegal then the culture still needs to change as which can be much tougher. It helps give reasoning why is so difficult for women in Iran to gain basic rights because even women in the US have trouble with something basic that men enjoy.

I am not speaking to people in Iran but to people in the US who might be confused about the hijab. By giving an example of such suppression in the US it can help get people to understand why it's so difficult to get change to happen. Sure for us it's just a head covering, but for them it's a way of life and has religious significance. I hope that dialogue will help effect change everywhere.

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u/catlaxative Sep 24 '22

I grew up Mormon and they literally feel this way about shoulders.

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u/MightyBoat Sep 24 '22

Imagine how sick in the head the leadership of that country is if they think hair is too much... Really fucked up

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u/recycle4science Sep 24 '22

Lol what if the breasts aren't comically flopping but are just calmly reposing?

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u/c08855c49 Sep 24 '22

Nah, if I have my breasts out in public you better bet they gonna be floppin

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u/Iliamna_remota Sep 24 '22

That's less of an OMFG, and more of an OMG.

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u/SunMoonTruth Sep 24 '22

The subtext is really that Iranian men are so deprived, suppressed and lacking in morals or self-control, that seeing a woman’s hair is enough to turn them into a rapist.

I mean that’s how Iranian men should be understood through all these to control women.

In fact, that stands true for any society that puts down parts of the population. It’s a reflection of those in power not those they are putting down.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

Completely true. I'm a Persian girl and totally feel it.

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u/FewerToysHigherWages Sep 24 '22

Yes, in the words of a Muslim "the head is shameful". It doesnt need to make sense, its just a means of asserting power over women.

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u/PT10 Sep 24 '22

The protest isn't about the headscarf. It involves the headscarf as a political symbol, but the actual protest is against the government and its religious police. Which has snowballed into a larger protest against the government and its other policies which have fucked over the country lately (also its secret police, revolutionary guards, all that other stuff people don't like ).

If it was just about covering their head, they wouldn't have waited so long to protest. I know that's the only thing most redditors will see, women letting their hair out, but it's about way more than that.

It's not even an anti-hijab protest. It's more of a "pro-choice" protest. They are asserting their right to do whatever they want with their bodies. Publicly removing the headscarf or even cutting their hair is them flagrantly asserting their right over their own bodies in the government's face. If the government had been forcing them to walk around in bikinis, they'd probably be doing the exact opposite.

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u/jarlvk Sep 24 '22

Our men have the discipline of a wet towel, solve their problem!

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u/BA_calls Sep 24 '22

These photos were all taken at a protest in Istanbul. These are turkish women protesting in solidarity with Iranian women. The woman cutting her hair is an Iranian immigrant.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/300695887/mahsa-amini-what-is-happening-in-iran--why-is-it-a-crucial-moment-for-womens-rights

^ context for top right and bottom right photos. Also you can see the lady from top left in the full top right photo, she’s clipped out here.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/23/mass-protests-in-iran-is-the-regimes-biggest-challenge-in-years.html

^ bottom left photo context

Women around the world are protesting in solidarity. What’s going on in Iran has evolved beyond Masha Amini/women/headscarves.

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u/palekillerwhale Sep 24 '22

Feels irresponsible to post their faces in the middle of this conflict. I understand the sentiment but facial recognition could put them in harms way.

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u/Sillybutter Sep 24 '22

They are begging we do this to protect them because without their faces showing theirs no proof they were there before they get murdered

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u/palekillerwhale Sep 24 '22

That's a fair point. I'm not active on social media so I could be way off base. I salute all the women and men fighting for their rights and protecting each other.

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u/Imprettystrong Sep 24 '22

So sad people still have to die and fight for basic rights of personal freedom. Very brave.

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u/the_snowwy Sep 24 '22

Reddit, I can't thank you enough for supporting us, But please try to blur their faces next time you post.

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u/munazir_b Sep 24 '22

In India, protests are happening for the right to wear and in Iran the right to not, in both cases its really fighting for the right to choose. Some women accept the head scarf and some find it uncomfortable and there isn't anything wrong with both but to force one to do something is really wrong, not everyone is being forced and not everyone wants to be forced.

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u/DrNolove Sep 24 '22

What happened to Masha Amani?

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u/avataRJ Sep 24 '22

She dressed in way too lewdly. That is, her hair was visible under her headscarf, and the religious police beat her to death.

This has triggered some anger due to religious repression, rights of minorities and other issues. On the first round of demonstrations, the official bodycount is 35.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

Why aren't all national leaders calling out Iran for being insecure and frightened of women's hair?

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u/BruceSharkbait Sep 24 '22

It’s not about hair. It’s about control.

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u/Shadesmctuba Sep 24 '22

Remember: it’s not that they’re wearing head coverings, it’s that they must wear head coverings. Against their wills. Without a choice in the matter. Whether they wear them or not should be their choice.

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u/penilingus Sep 24 '22

The recent video on reddit of that young girl without a hijab shows you what men in the middle east really think.

They've been indoctrinated by religion to the point that they have no shame to say;

'women are sinful and deficient from birth'

'i would lynch you if you were my sister, you bring shame to the family if you don't wear a hijab'

Religion is the law of the land.

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u/PositivityCentral Sep 24 '22

This movement exemplifies why religion and government never mix with beneficial results to the populous.

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u/eleanor_dashwood Sep 24 '22

I can’t tell you how happy it makes me to see men being allies in those photos too! Those women are SO BRAVE but having men there too will only help, I think.

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u/JazzFan1998 Sep 24 '22

I support them and admire their bravery!

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u/No-Comparison8472 Sep 24 '22

Meanwhile in France, ministry of education reports growing tend of young girls facing presssure to cover their hair or get photographed by young men and reported / shamed on social media when they don't cover their hair.

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u/politichien Sep 24 '22

love, power, and triumph to our Iranian sisters

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

Our deepest respect and sincerest support to the Iranian women!

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u/HammerfestNORD Sep 24 '22

Power to the women of Iran!

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u/esmoney Sep 24 '22

About time! I thought everyone forgot about Rushdie

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u/Pseud0nym_txt Sep 24 '22

Please blur the faces if we can see them the Iranian Government can too

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u/asafeplacetofart Sep 24 '22

Shouldn’t we be blurring their faces?! This post is outing these women to the regime. Other posts I’ve seen blur their faces.

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u/MortalTwit Sep 24 '22

Every time someone comes at me with the "SoMe MIdDlE EasTErN WomEN WaNT to WeAR HijAB" I am going to show them these pictures.

Sure, some want to. ALL are forced.

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u/Kashik Sep 24 '22

82% of the Iranians are against the mandatory hijab law. And that includes people wearing it because they want to.

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u/MortalTwit Sep 24 '22

So sick of governments overriding the overwhelming will of the people on things like this.

I mean, if we all wanted to dismantle our nukes and spread the material over our bodies like sunblock I can see the government vetoing that. But this? This is cruelty and power flex and does NOTHING to serve the people.

I hope they win some rights.

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u/ubersiren Sep 24 '22

Exactly, it’s about being given the CHOICE.

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u/sanfermin1 Sep 24 '22

Epitome of Badass!

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u/RedshiftWarp Sep 24 '22

Everybody has a better life outside the yoke of religion.

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u/Tapprunner Sep 24 '22

For fucks same - blur faces!

They're already risking their lives. You don't need to make it easier to identify people by posting their picture online.

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u/john_at_hotmail Sep 24 '22

It outrages me how many backward, against-humanity regimes still exist in 2022. Truly mind boggling.

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u/LeoTheDragonKing Sep 24 '22

Good for them

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

[deleted]

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u/igothitbyacar Sep 24 '22

This should be higher up in the comments. This is a danger to everyone pictured here. The Iranian government can use Reddit too.

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u/KallistiEngel Sep 24 '22

I agree. Having talked to people who photograph protests, it's best practice not to include faces. It makes these individuals easier targets for the authorities. Authorities are still working to find and either arrest or harm protestors after the protest is over.

I also know as a photographer there is the desire to show faces to raise the profile of what they're doing and to recognize them for standing up in the face of tyrrany, but it can actually work against their efforts.

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u/busse9 Sep 24 '22

Exactly. They are choosing to open themselves to everyone around them, not everyone on the internet.

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u/TooGoood Sep 24 '22

Hello r/pics, r/monaleeparis/ and everyone else reading this.. I would like to ask you all a favor, these images will be used to arrest/torture/ and possibly kill these women at a later date by the Iranian government, could you please blur our their faces if you are going to post or re-post any thing from Iran as your effort could mean a life being saved from brutality.

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u/WrapMyBeads Sep 24 '22

I hope this ends well unlike most protests that come through here

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u/LiLiandThree Sep 24 '22

Do all religious extremist groups define women as second class citizens/slaves/sexual objects? If so, makes me think men invent these practicises mostly to keep women dependent and unsafe. I am friggin sick of the ways women are treated in much of the world.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

It is brave but nobody is doing anything to help them besides karma farm on Reddit 💀

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u/the_thex_mallet Sep 24 '22

Hope it all works out, I'd like to visit Iran someday

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u/nocturnalfrolic Sep 24 '22

Question. What would be the best case scenario if somehow they toppled the government? What will be the direction? Who will be the head honcho?

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u/TiiGerTekZZ Sep 24 '22

Yes, lets get their faces on the internet, what could possible go wrong?

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u/Puzzleheaded_Power55 Sep 24 '22

We need this energy here

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u/chris_dea Sep 24 '22

Please everyone go post this in r/ProIran.... I would do it, but I got banned there pretty much immediately, lol

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u/Impressive-Revenue94 Sep 24 '22

Good for them. I support.

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u/resonantedomain Sep 24 '22

It was not a matter of if, but a matter of time.

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u/mockedarche Sep 24 '22

The biggest difference I see from old protests to now is that there's far more men in this protests. All the old ones have practically or literally 0 men. Happy to see more universal desire for equality.

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u/villings Sep 24 '22

someone show this to the russian people

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u/firebirdspooky Sep 24 '22

It's simple: Keep religion out of politics

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u/thef-ckyoucantgive Sep 24 '22

This shit makes me happy to be alive. Give em hell

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u/Bin_Evasion Sep 24 '22

Fuck the police.

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u/angramenyu Sep 24 '22

All of this because some lunatic decided to write a stupid book telling a lot of nonsense.