r/worldnews Sep 22 '22 Helpful 4 Wholesome 7 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Take My Energy 1 Take My Power 1 Silver 2

Zelenskyy calls on Russians to 'protest' and 'fight back' against Putin's draft if they 'want to survive' Russia/Ukraine

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540

u/obeyyourbrain Sep 22 '22

Seems like it would be more prudent to draft the police, then draft civvys to replace the police.

68

u/PhelesDragon Sep 22 '22

Wow. That would either work really well (for Russia) or backfire horribly. I'm betting on the latter.

167

u/DecimBell Sep 22 '22 Helpful

Russian here. There's no "work really well" scenario here, it's police state in here by that point. You can't publicly protest AT ALL in Russia, and police is what ensures the tyranny will continue. Take the police out of the equation and Putin will lose his power.

Also, police sucks at war, at least Russian one. And special units are too scarce and require very careful tactics to use, which Russian command has none.

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u/a_man_bear_pig Sep 22 '22

Hey man, sorry your leader sucks dicks and is ruining your life and economy. Hopefully the Russian people will say "enough is enough" sooner than later

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u/Ruzi-Ne-Druzi Sep 23 '22

Weird kind of "Rock Paper Scissors" except it's russian police, russians and Ukrainian forces. Police armed with rubber batons is bad at war, russians can't beat police so they being sent to invade Ukraine and forced to fight Ukrainian army.

It's "Rubber Lemmings HIMARS".

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22

[deleted]

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u/Ruzi-Ne-Druzi Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

The argument is that ruzzian police can't beat Ukrainian forces, but they can beat russian citizens, so russian citizens being sent in order to somehow beat Ukrainian forces. That's "Rock Paper Scissors".

Lemmings is small rodents that known for (myth/misconception) mass suicides, when they fall from the cliffs by blindly following and pushing one another towards cliff edge.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22

[deleted]

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u/Ruzi-Ne-Druzi Sep 23 '22

Oh,ok got it. Hard to read emotional subtexts on typed "Huh" )

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u/Faxon Sep 22 '22

Yea at this point, with the first major training cycle completed for Ukraine already, and a bunch more well on the way, they'll easily be able to keep their troops stocked up on the front lines with new men who are both more motivated and better trained for the job, to say nothing for the equipment difference. Y'all are pulling ancient rusting out soviet stocks, out from the boneyards, only because Russia doesn't have anywhere nice and dry like the Arizona desert, everything is fucking rusted to shit and probably half functional at best. Even Ukraine has complained of such issues already, trying to bring old gear out of storage, and they have the help of the west in retrofitting and repairing such equipment. Russia can't even get chips in to build a lot of the tech for their gear anymore, and don't have production capacity for stuff that they did in the Soviet era, because it has been obsolete for so long that they scrapped the production lines. Your guys' best bet at this point when they get to the front lines, is to kill their commanding officer and then defect as a unit. Can't serve a jail sentence in Russia if you're living in Ukraine now, can you?

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u/WineSoda Sep 23 '22

Who goes to war with a system of communication that isn't secure? That alone tells me a lot. Russia is losing because there are two fighters in this war, those who are mentally prepared (8 years prepared), and those who aren't mentally prepared. This one difference alone means it's not 1 Ukrainian soldier = 1 Russian Soldier. It's more like 1 Ukrainian Soldier equals 3 Russian Soldiers. Meaning, you only need 1/3 the number of Russian soldiers on your side.

1

u/Faxon Sep 23 '22

I like the sentiment, but that's not quite how these things work in reality. Rather than try to explain myself, I'm just going to show you to the youtube channel I've relied on more than any other source of media (and boy oh boy is it high quality analysis), since he did a video on the subject months ago. Feel free to browse his entire backlog, he's been doing them roughly once a month for a while now, and has an upcoming video in the next 2 weeks on the implications of Russian mobilization, so keep an eye out for that too. It won't be up right away, it'll be up when he gets the facts right and has enough information to actually formulate accurate analysis, as it should be

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u/Titties_On_G Sep 22 '22

In fairness your military also sucks at war

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u/Healthy-Travel3105 Sep 22 '22

I think he's probably pretty aware of that

8

u/A_Furious_Mind Sep 22 '22

At least they don't have to travel too far to find one that's capable.

2

u/Ryankmfdm Sep 22 '22

This was vicious. And I loved it.

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u/ohbother12345 Sep 22 '22

Thanks for sharing. I hope you stay safe.

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u/wires_dont_talk Sep 23 '22

The only way you could deal with the leadership is how the Jewish dealt with Nazis. It didn't end well for a lot of them. The Jewish underground fucked those nazis up. Russians need a substantial underground group to fight back against the police. It's easier to say this because I can't imagine wanting to do it myself. Easier just to accept the status quo instead of taking up arms.

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u/rabbithasacat Sep 23 '22

Thanks for speaking up, we hope you can stay safe.

1

u/JavaDontHurtMe Sep 23 '22

You can protest if you're brave enough. They're doing it right now in Iran, another police state with disappearances, torture etc. people have been shot and killed in the streets.

Belarus and Kazakhstan also had protests not so long ago. In Kazakhstan the government has loosened its grip on power to appease the people. In Belarus, it stopped Lukashenko from sending Belorussians into Ukraine. If Russians also stood up to Putin at that time, maybe the OMON or Rosgvardiya wouldn't have been sent to those countries and they'd both have had more success with their protests.

When was the last time Russians protested in large numbers, with real conviction and with willingness to risk their lives? Every protest in Russia appears to be a few hundred people at best being bundled into cars without any resistance, to face whatever horrible fate that awaits them.

Are there only a few thousand people in a country of 150m who are brave enough to bear the consequences of standing up to Putin? If there were thousands rising up across the country, as in the above examples, it would at least force Putin to step back a bit, he was clearly reluctant to do the mobilization, and maybe real protests would have stopped him.

I'm not calling you personally a coward, but the Russian people clearly are cowards.

1

u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES Sep 23 '22

From what I recall from early on int he war, they did find swat equipment in some of the vehicles in the convoys that got annihilated which makes me think they tried this... Or just sent with the wrong equipment

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u/CommercialFly185 Sep 22 '22

It would backfire like crazy.

If your gonna send the people who are armed look after law and order to die in a foreign shit hole (I'm calling the war front this, not Ukraine itself). I suspect they might oppose you.

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u/brettol Sep 22 '22

Ukraine is abit of a shit hole though it’s an extremely poor country

4

u/_zenith Sep 23 '22

It’s poor but I wouldn’t call it a shithole really… at least not in the sense of (usually) war-torn and very heavy crime and all that.

It’s major problems seem to be poverty and corruption.

After all, even the poorest European country is not that bad off comparatively, there is much worse to be found worldwide.

0

u/PhelesDragon Sep 22 '22

That's what I was thinking, but I also don't know how the Russian police feel about the war in general

11

u/LittleKitty235 Sep 22 '22

Most people don't feel too positively about being forced into a war that their corpse isn't even likely to return from.

3

u/ocelat_already Sep 22 '22

send them and find out

4

u/Irilieth_Raivotuuli Sep 23 '22

They did. Rosgvardia was literally the first Russian unit to reach Kiev, even ahead of the military. Two full busses of rosgvardia omoh swat-style police, and of them only two of the rosgvardia personnel survived the first exchange with Ukrainian units.

They just drove straight through the frontline and Ukrainian defenders let them through because they thought that they were either fleeing civilians or Ukrainian police, because surely Russia wouldn't be stupid enough to send police units as vanguard, right?

It turned out the police unit was supposed to follow Russian infantry armor and suppress the population after Kiev would have capitulated in an instant (at least they said that they thought it would be so, reality differs), but the infantry lagged behind for some reason (which involved Ukrainian territory defense forces not being keen on said infantry coming through), meaning that the police busses just 420 blazed it right through.

They were intercepted at a bridge, and gunned down pretty much to the man. Only two survived, and both were seriously wounded.

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u/GentleMocker Sep 22 '22

It's 'who watches the watchers' territory, you can't expect the main force that quells dissent to be put in a position where theyd be prone to dissent themselves, what are they gonna do, arrest each other when they refuse to get conscripted?