r/worldnews Sep 22 '22 Wholesome 7 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Take My Energy 1 Take My Power 1 Silver 2 Helpful 4

Zelenskyy calls on Russians to 'protest' and 'fight back' against Putin's draft if they 'want to survive' Russia/Ukraine

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3.7k

u/MaximumEffort433 Sep 22 '22 Helpful

"I mean Putin's already instituted a 'rifle for every protestor' policy, he's even helping you guys along!"

390

u/dawko29 Sep 22 '22

He's seen some WW2 docs about what Soviet rifles they've used and was like "this is why they won!". Plus no Ukrainian would look at mosin and be like, heck yeah, that's the gun I'll loot.

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u/Thomasasia Sep 23 '22

Maybe as a trophy. Mosins are pretty legendary, even though the design is 100 years old

167

u/Dt2_0 Sep 23 '22

Up until a few years ago they were dirt cheap here in the States. Lots of people picked up Mosins as dirt cheap deer rifles.

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u/snuff3r Sep 23 '22

Would love to pick one up but I haven't seen many around in Australia.

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u/Dt2_0 Sep 23 '22

Dumb American speaking, IIRC Aus has some extremely strict firearm laws right? I know deactivated firearms can be kept in some places with strict laws, but I was under the impression is was next to impossible to own firearms in Aus?

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u/SmallBewilderedDuck Sep 23 '22

I feel like the way our Aus gun laws are interpreted in America is that regulated = banned and that's just not how it is. As teenager I did clay target shooting for school sport. Every week they gave a bunch of dumb teenagers shotguns for an afternoon, but it was well supervised and the rules were drummed into us first. My dad has always had registered guns locked safely in a gun safe, although he did have to surrender some when that type of gun was banned. Absolutely there is strict gun regulation in Australia enforced to varying degrees depending on exactly where you live, but so there should be for anything that can kill people, just like we do for things like cars, food safety, etc.

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u/DryCourage74 Sep 23 '22

Nobody on the USA surrendering even a dam bullet

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u/snuff3r Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

I own two rifles. Pretty easy to get but there are rules, like storage inspections, etc. I can own shotguns with my current class of license (A/B)

Handguns are a pain to get, you need to basically be a sports competitor to own one and need to register and attend an insane amount of competitions each year to maintain the license. So, most people don't bother. There are f-all handgun owners in Australia afaik,

Auto and semis (rifles) are strictly prohibited.

8

u/Admirable-Emu4065 Sep 23 '22

Just to add my two cents. I have one rifle simply because I'm a country bloke and was raised with guns being more freely available before the 1996 law changes. However, I couldn't even say when I used it last and may never use it again. In fact, the last few times I've used firearms since 1999/2000 they weren't even mine and I was simply out with others and took a few shots to check where my aim was at. I certainly don't need one for protection and all those other bullshit excuses. - We suffered a break in on 6th Sept 2022 (two weeks ago) and the pricks stole our 4wd by finding the keys while we slept. I'm thankful that firearms weren't part of that event at all thanks to Australian gun laws. I can also guarantee that the protection argument is mostly bullshit because the arseholes never do anything when you're ready for it. Plus, if I'd woken up and they stuck around long enough for me to unlock and load my rifle, I may be in prison for manslaughter instead of sitting on the toilet reading reddit posts.

It's still fairly easy to obtain certain firearms in Australia, but the limitations are enough to prevent most of the garbage the rest of the world associates with America, such as mass shootings.

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u/3030tank Sep 23 '22

Absolutely two cents worth.

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u/ZephkielAU Sep 23 '22

Far from. We can absolutely own guns for recreational use, hunting, collection, and defending property from wildlife, etc., what we can't do is go to an expo and purchase a bunch of assault rifles to go into a half-secured gun safe (or drawer?) that our kids can take to show and tell.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia

I'd also love to own a Mosin Nagant (my favourite firearm) but for now I just use bows for everything and haven't really looked into it.

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u/dddavyyy Sep 23 '22

Nah, you just need a licence - just a couple of hoops to jump. There's restrictions on what you can own depending on your need (like if you just go to a clay target club you can only get firearms in that class, whereas a farmer that needs to cull wild pigs will need a different class, people in pistol clubs are licenced to keep pistols etc.). Old man keeps a number of WW1 and WW2 rifles and bayonets, not Russian though I doubt there is a reason he couldn't if he wanted. Not to say our laws don't have some over the top aspects and arbitrary restrictions (like do air rifles and gel blasters really need the same licence as a .22), but for the most part people here are pretty happy with the licencing requirements and heavy restrictions on semi-auto/high capacity. Tldr - nah, it's easy to get a firearm, just join a hunting club online or any other club (or get a mate with a property say you can shoot on it) and get a licence, but you're not going to get some of the sexy stuff our freedom loving American friends can get.

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u/AnnoyedOwlbear Sep 23 '22

Not a dumb question - there was a mass NRA beatup a while back about our gun laws, and they shoved it into every media outlet they could manage. I watched it from afar with bewilderment. As a result of its success, I keep hearing we can't have firearms from US folks.

'You can't own firearms in Australia' is gun nut propaganda. You absolutely can. But there is regulation, storage, and purpose to consider, and we are WELL aware our completed suicide attempt rate dropped heavily when the laws on assault rifles came into place.

TLDR: We can have guns. Easily. There's multiple shooting ranges in the city I live in.

1

u/Tipsy-Canoe Sep 23 '22

I picked one up here in the states, it had come straight from Moscow apparently. Bayonet, sling, ammo pouches, and oil canisters all for $180.

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u/snuff3r Sep 23 '22

Holy crap. I just googled and prices vary vastly depending on condition.. but you're looking at AUD600-2000 here, rifle only.

There's a fucking sweeeet looking Lithgow MkIII I just found but $2500.. eek.

0

u/buzzardhawkk Sep 23 '22

Think you have to scuba dive for those

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u/TheCornerator Sep 23 '22

Yep, got mine for $100. Shot it so much the first day the finish started to melt off.

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u/SeriousGoofball Sep 23 '22

That was the cosmoline melting out of the parts.

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u/rabbitaim Sep 23 '22

A buddy of mine bought the ammo for his and it was a nightmare to open. They give you a little key rod that you’re supposed to unroll / peel off the container lid. If anything snapped off early you had to have a tool to remove it without cutting yourself. I think he ended up getting snips to cut it off.

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u/InspectorEE Sep 23 '22

Did the same. They didn’t even give me the key so I used a hammer and chisel.

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u/Mornar Sep 23 '22

Is it just me or does anyone else feel very uneasy about the idea of applying a hammer and chisel to a container of ammo?

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u/GardenOfSilver Sep 23 '22

Sound like its stored safe and sound in a sealed container, easily out of emediate reach and access. Super safe!

But, uh... yeah, mabe thats not how it should be opened, yeah.

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u/InspectorEE Oct 05 '22

Yeah no definitely was not my finest moment haha

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u/Electrical-Can-7982 Sep 23 '22

sounds like that canned corned beef can from libby's

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u/Monteze Sep 23 '22

That's some excess cosmoline that didn't get cleaned right?

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u/edgeofsanity76 Sep 23 '22

What is cosmoline?

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u/NGTTwo Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

A kind of oil used to protect metal parts from corrosion while in storage. It's very commonly applied to firearms, which otherwise have a nasty habit of having their moving parts rust together.

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u/edgeofsanity76 Sep 23 '22

I see. Thanks.

2

u/AccountNo2720 Sep 23 '22

Was your shoulder still intact?..

1

u/TheCornerator Sep 23 '22

Folded towel helped me a little, and 20-25 rounds fired as fast as you can go will heat it up pretty fast. Also bring a friend

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u/InspectorEE Sep 23 '22

Got mine for $150 from a Big 5 in 2011

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u/wordholes Sep 23 '22

There will be plenty new dirt cheap Mosins soon enough. Just check Ukranian eBay.

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u/ThievingOwl Sep 23 '22

Good ol’ garbage rod. Never let’s you down.

1

u/supershinythings Sep 23 '22

My Dad collected some after watching the movie “Enemy At The Gate”, and even put a sniper scope on one.

“Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills.”

— Gunny Hartman, Full Metal Jacket

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u/LumberjackJack Sep 23 '22

What round does it fire?

1

u/Dt2_0 Sep 23 '22

7.62x54R for most of them. Some in the US have been rebored to .308 (7.62x51 NATO) or other common American calibers.

1

u/Ayelmar Sep 23 '22

I was shopping for the best deal (~$100) and waiting for my next paycheck in 2014 -- then the Russians invaded Crimea, and suddenly prices tripled or quadrupled -- IF they were for sale at all...

3

u/dawko29 Sep 23 '22

It was my #2 weapon in cod1-2 after M1 garand....so sure, I'd love to own one.....maybe in 10 years I will venture to Ukraine s forests to dig one out

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22

Mosins are pretty cheap. You could probably get a whole crate of them in cosmoline for like $800

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u/dawko29 Sep 23 '22

Hmm, that or Rtx 4070.....tough choice

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u/Thomasasia Sep 23 '22

Thank goodness! The cod expert comes out of the woods to show us the ropes! ;)

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u/GanderGarden Sep 23 '22

How many Russian soldiers do you think will feel that way when they get sprayed down by 50. Cals and AKs

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u/Thomasasia Sep 23 '22

Very few, but their corpses will look awesome holding a mosin

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u/RippleAffected Sep 23 '22

The Mosins Russians are using may be old stock though. They may have been smothered in cosmoline and stored in bags. Could be damn near brand new.

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u/I_Dont_Work_Here_Lad Sep 23 '22

They make great hunting rifles! I have one I bought for $70 back in 2010.

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u/Thomasasia Sep 23 '22

That's honestly kind of amazing. Was it made in the states, or is it a surplus from another country?

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u/I_Dont_Work_Here_Lad Sep 23 '22

Surplus from the Soviet Union. They used to sell them by the crate because they were digging up so many. Some of them even came with the bayonets if I remember correctly.

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u/HMartDefense Sep 23 '22

Legendary… well it’s old and it’s ubiquitous. But it’s also a piece of shit. People like it in the US because it was cheap.

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u/Thomasasia Sep 23 '22

Well that's the way it goes. It's legendary status hails mostly from it's place in history due to mass production.

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u/lolpostslol Sep 23 '22

Yeah I’d loot a Mosin just for the coolness factor. Probably die right after but die in style

232

u/CreideikiVAX Sep 23 '22

Plus no Ukrainian would look at mosin and be like, heck yeah, that's the gun I'll loot.

Hey, WWII bolt-action rifles are cool. Especially if they're in good condi— never mind.

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u/Boxy310 Sep 23 '22

Mosin-Nagants are typically Tsarist military surplus. They were already antiques in WW2, and they're still being dug up from barrels full of Cosmoline.

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u/bingbangbango Sep 23 '22

They are fun as hell to shoot in a non-combat totally just chilling with friends setting

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u/Boxy310 Sep 23 '22

Oh, agreed. In modern combat though I would want something I could shoot more than 10 times without my shoulder turning to jelly, though.

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u/UnnamedStaplesDrone Sep 23 '22

they have that reputation but the limited time i spent with one i was surprised it was very easy to shoot. probably helps that it's heavy. i thought the trigger was surprisingly crisp too.. wonder if someone had modded it.

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u/ses1989 Sep 23 '22

Sounds like you have the full size. I have a full size and carbine, and that carbine will rip your fucking shoulder off worse than hot loaded buckshot, and a muzzle blast to match. Trigger has a long travel time, but it breaks very clean once you get it down. Only issue is how hard they are to cycle unless you maybe had the curved bolt.

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u/GeneralJawbreaker Sep 23 '22

My 91/30 cycles like a dream with brass, but the moment I feed it steel i need a damn mallet to get the bolt open.

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u/ses1989 Sep 23 '22

Maybe that's the problem. I've never run anything other than steel out of it.

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u/gnat_outta_hell Sep 23 '22

The curved bolt was a sniper configuration. If you were running the gun as intended, you would have a small scope in the way making it harder to cycle anyways.

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u/itchynipz Sep 23 '22

Same with G-98’s vs G-98K’s. Oof. Much better in the shoulder then the Mosin’s, but even so I’d much rather shoot the long version. The Germans went to war with a hunting rifle(Mauser). The Americans brought a target rifle (Springfield ’03). The Brit’s brought a rifle for war (Lee-Enfield). The Russians…brought something altogether different.

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u/UnnamedStaplesDrone Sep 23 '22

Yeah haven’t tried a carbine. Sounds fun!

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u/Stinkyclamjuice15 Sep 23 '22

The carbine kicks bad lol

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u/149Murphy Sep 23 '22

I had the same experience. I suppose I was fairly warned, and I have a lot of experience with different weapons so I was expecting a mule kick. It was not so bad.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22

I learned to shoot rifles on one of those when I was a child. Pretty damn accurate, wasn’t too bad on the shoulder, put a scope on it and hit things pretty damn far away and groupings were good.

Though since then I’ve shot a lot more high power rounds and more expensive rifles…still has a place in my heart and I look forward to teaching my son with the same rifle when it becomes more age appropriate.

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u/Collins_Michael Sep 23 '22

The battle rifle is decent to handle, but the carbine configuration pulped me.

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u/hamburders Sep 23 '22

By chance are you a bigger person? I’m 6’3” 220lbs and can throw 100 12ga slugs down range and only feel a tingle in my shoulder at that point. The mosin I have fired felt pretty similar to my .270win which has a decent kick, I just absorb it better than my friends.

1

u/UnnamedStaplesDrone Sep 23 '22

Not as big as you, but I felt like a 12 gauge with slugs kicks far worse.

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u/hamburders Sep 23 '22

I suppose it does. The bolt action I think kinda forces a reset on my shoulder more than pump-action or semi, but that’s probably a me issue.

1

u/R_M_R_0 Sep 23 '22

everyone here is making the BOLD assumption these hundred+ year old rifles have been serviced since they entered service

5

u/GeneralJawbreaker Sep 23 '22

They're stored in cosmoline, so if they were in good shape before going into storage, they're in good shape now. My garbage rod just needed a deep clean to get rid of the cosmoline and can practically hit a quarter at 100 yards. They're definitely not what I'd want in a modern war, but they aren't gonna blow up in your face or have the spread of a shotgun just because they're old

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u/drunkenknight9 Sep 23 '22

The kick is nowhere near as bad as a lot of other bolt action rifles from the time. I have plenty of issues with the Mosin but recoil is not one of them. The carbine sized ones on the other hand...

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u/MadWhiskeyGrin Sep 23 '22

Sometimes you just really need to put a fist sized hole in someone while setting their clothes on fire

1

u/MightyPenguin Sep 23 '22

They are heavy guns honestly(more weight means less harsh recoil as the extra mass absorbs it), they dont hurt your shoulder at all. I can fire one for 100 rounds straight and doesnt make my shoulder sore. putting a scope on one would make it a decent long range weapon and they still could be effective.

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u/colewrus Sep 23 '22

A lot of people scoff when I tell then I have a mosin but it's fun to shoot and the ammo was usually in stock through the pandemic. I havent looked since the war so that may not be true anymore

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u/PoetryUpInThisBitch Sep 23 '22

They're fun to shoot, cheap, and accurate.

I was a broke grad student and got invited to go deer hunting with a friend. I reasoned that the Mosin was close enough to a .30-06 to be used for deer, so I found some soft-point ammunition for it, bought one for $70, cleaned it, checked the headspace, and brought it hunting.

Got some good laughs from the guys I was with when I showed up with it.

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u/HermanCainsGhost Sep 23 '22

I suspect in combat they are distinctly less fun as hell to shoot

1

u/3PhaseDelta Sep 23 '22

Not to mention they are tough motherfuckers. You could literally throw the thing into a puddle of mud and it'll still fire.

1

u/rafikiknowsdeway1 Sep 23 '22

I've heard this a lot. But what makes a gun more fun to shoot than another?

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u/JackPoe Sep 23 '22

Yeah I don't like guns very much but I've always wanted to fire a Mosin Nagant.

1

u/Cirias Sep 23 '22

Spot the American 😆

1

u/betterwithsambal Sep 23 '22

You just described every single firearm conceived by man. Even a blunderbuss is fun to shoot.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22

I wish I'd picked some up back when you could get them for $50 a piece in the US.

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u/Abnormal-Normal Sep 23 '22

Wish I got my hands on one 10 years ago when they where like 100 bucks a pop. You and 9 friends could by a pallet of em for like 900 and each get a working bolt gun

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u/KmartQuality Sep 23 '22

"no definition found"
What is cosmoline?

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u/Boxy310 Sep 23 '22

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline

It was used by the Tsarist Russian military to store their military surplus weapons, especially the Mosin-Nagant. You fill a barrel with Cosmoline then stuff a bunch of Mosin-Nagants in there, then bury the barrel in the ground so it's not exposed to air. They're still digging up barrels of these, even 130 years after the fact, and the Mosin-Nagants are still in pretty operational condition.

1

u/NhlBeerWeed Sep 23 '22

It's like this oil/jelly stuff that the Russians store weapons in to keep it from rusting

1

u/subarubob Sep 23 '22

Most of the surplus rifles found in the US are marked from Ishevsk 1940-1945 when I've looked through recently opened crates at gun stores. Tula's are relatively rare (sort of) and pre-1936 rifles with the hex receiver are kinda rare too.

1

u/dragonwithagirltatoo Sep 23 '22

Yeah I have a 91/30 from 43. I was kindof under the impression that was pretty common. I mean it was like $150.

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u/HermanCainsGhost Sep 23 '22

Keep going at this rate and maybe they'll need to use arms from the time of Catherine the Great.

1

u/otterlyonerus Sep 23 '22

The two main models in circulation are the 91/30, invented in 1891 and updated in 1930, and the M44 carbine, which began circulation in 1944. Both were still in production as late as 1973 according to Wikipedia.

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u/Number6isNo1 Sep 23 '22

Nah, most Mosins are not Tsarist surplus. Many, many Mosin-Nagants were manufactured during WWII. Some even after, including a 1946 Mosin-Nagant M44 (aka a Model 1944) that I own. Most, but obviously not all, of the surplus MNs that were sold in the US in the past 15 years were M91/30s of 1940s manufacture. Even the model number tells you these were not Tsarist surplus: Model 1891/1930 revision aka M91/30. As much as I hate to use an NRA publication for a cite, they do know firearms: https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/a-look-back-at-the-mosin-nagant-91-30/

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u/FactoidFinder Sep 23 '22

Literally the first thing I thought was “holy shit the resell value” had to remember where I was for a minute

3

u/GuyDarras Sep 23 '22

Ukrainian picks up a Mosin

Let's see... cracked bolt handle, broken firing pin, worn barrel, weak magazine spring, cracked stock, bent front sight...

Yep, pretty much a standard Mosin-Nagant.

1

u/CreideikiVAX Sep 24 '22

It was just fine! Before the HIMARS said hello.

1

u/Spidey209 Sep 23 '22

Never fired. Dropped once.

2

u/AdZealousideal7448 Sep 23 '22

i've been a firearms trainer for over 10 years.

Mosin's are like katana's, the legend really hurts them.

There are tons of them around everyone assumes they're this magical weapon that can do things it can't, survive in ways it can't (mainly due to how many there are around) that anyone can use it effectively with little training.

They're great weapons within the scope they were intended for, but like a katana people get upset when you point out that a lot of what you see just doesn't reflect the reality of them.

It's like saying hey i'm being deployed in canada, the legendary s&r rifle their specialists use is a ruger m77, so it must be epic, but the reality is, it was the cheapest deer rifle that met the specifications of what they needed.

It's why Australian's in the know were able to buy them up cheap under a commonwealth arms agreement because fanboys were busy chasing other stuff (and our archaic laws).

We now have fanboys here who will defend these against the mosin fanboys because even though the ruger is 3+1 internal load, the mosin is 5 load with stripper clips, it won't ever jam or fail to feed like your rusky stuff!

You then hear the mosin fanboys go on about it being the rifle that one world war II and how it could still fire after being packed in mud and rusting, right after telling you it can't ever rust due to being over engineered.

End of the day if it's what you've got, you use it, but I can tell you right now if anyone deployed in Ukraine had the option between an old mosin or a modern piece of "tupperware" (seriously the yanks with this concept that anything plastic is bad), if you've got access to modern arms, you are literally talking about generation advancements.

1

u/PHATsakk43 Sep 23 '22

It’s not modern, but it’s damn reliable.

1

u/Sensitive_Ladder2235 Sep 23 '22

The only gun made by russia thats worth looting is the AK. Thing is nearly indestructible and unjammable. No matter how bad it looks theres a 90% chance it still fires in the generally correct direction.

1

u/supershinythings Sep 23 '22

My father collected several because he became enamored of the one in the movie “Enemy At The Gate”, a battle between two opposing snipers in WWII. He even equipped one with a sniper scope. It doesn’t matter how old a weapon is, if the person wielding it is properly trained and willing to use it.

I doubt the Russians who are “lucky” enough to get one of those relics will be either though.